Project Notes: How To Lead a Band and the Virtues of Being Lazy

Hey there, Ezra here. Couple of quick notes before we start the show: this episode contains some profane, and explicit language. If you’re listening to it in the car where kids are around, now’s probably the time to click pause.

Also, a huge part of this conversation is in English. For moments of emphasis, it does include sprinkles of Malay. It shouldn’t detract you from the overall context, but if it does, head to our episode transcript at ezrazaid.com

Hey there, it’s the Ezra Zaid Project. You’re listening to Project Notes: where tips, thoughts and takeaways come together. If you haven't listened to our episode featuring Takahara Suiko, it’s one of my favourite episodes so far. I’d really encourage you to have a listen to that. She is the brainchild behind The Venopian Solitude, an experimental electro-pop-nusantara indie band. She also goes by Viona for her musical solo projects -- both available on Spotify. On this edition, we talk about the nature of trust among bandmates, and how it relates to ownership -- all the things that come up when you’re leading a band. After that, we speak about how to hack the musical process: what are the virtues of being lazy, and how it breeds creativity. 

On Project Notes, here’s Takahara Suiko.

(music)

EZRA

Are you close to your bandmates? 

TAKA

I would say we are close. Like we're not-macam mana ah (like how). Yeah, I think we're close. I mean we travel together for long periods of time; two years already in a row, like we travel to Europe hampir sebulan (nearly a month). So we have no choice but to be close to each other. Yeah, but there are some-

EZRA

But you guys vibe along beyond sort of the music and creative stuff. I mean, there's a good chemistry there that it resonates? Or is it more just, you know, a group of people who are unified through some sort of musical vision? Or is there more to that, is there texture to that? 

TAKA

I want to say it's a bit of, unified through music, the music that we're making. But also a little bit, macam keluar sikit (a little outside). It leaks into our personal life a little, just a little bit. I’ll be honest, I don't know the tiny details of all of my band members. I still feel that there's a boundary between men and women, you know macam they're married men, and I'm a married woman. So there's that boundary, but I also respect them as like my older brothers, because they're literally like, all older than me, except for this one guitarist Kina.And I'm very close to Kina. And because she's a female person that I can-we have like the same wavelength-I feel like we literally have the same wavelength. So it's easier for me to click with her. Yeah, but-

EZRA

With the rest of the guys, it's like, it's not that you can't click with them, but it's just like a different way of-different spectrum, maybe?

TAKA

Different spectrum, I feel. And I think we hang out a lot. And whenever we hang out, we will talk about either music, or the people that we know that is in the scene. It's-it's mainly that.

EZRA

I always wonder if that is like a positive hindrance to making cool creative stuff, or has there been a progression of how you negotiate these dynamics with your band members, whether they be male or female.

TAKA

I think I've always been open about when it comes to the music, I let them do whatever they want to do. So it's like a playground for them to experiment, if they want to bring in new instruments that want to try out like, this is the band, this is the only band that you can do this, you cannot do this with your, with your, you know, rock kapak (Malaysian rock) band, with your orchestra, with your jazz band, with your folk band, you cannot-you can only do that with this band. But we were supposed to work on the third album, like, I think right around this time. So for the third album, I want them to write the songs so that I can write lyrics over it and everyone has writing credit as well. But during our- 

EZRA

Why is that important to you? 

TAKA

Because it's a band. TVS, The Venopian Solitude, it started off as my baby, my medium of expression, my therapy session, so to speak. But then I joined the label, and then the label gave me these bunch of people to work with, which is my bandmates-some of our bandmates are from the label, they start to make TVS as their own thing as well. And I realized that I should trust them with the baby, because they are literally the godfathers of this-of my baby. So macam (like), they can take care of the baby as well, because it's a matter of dismantling the wall that I have when it comes to creativity in TVS. So that kind of playfulness that they have during rehearsals is what makes me realize that trusting them is a good move. And it's a good idea for the long run. Because they have the music, you know, theories and capabilities and I don't. I have zero music theory and understanding. So they have those things and they know what they're doing, walaupun benda tu main-main (despite their playfulness),  but we try to make it work.

EZRA

You know, from album to album, at least with each songwriting process, you're letting go of a bit, a little bit more trusting more people to come into it. I think from what it sounds like, it feels that it's paying off. It's good for you. It's good for the band. And it's-have you found that it's actually translated towards the goodness of the music?

TAKA 

I think it does. Both-in all aspects, especially during live performances. The band would have more fun when they play a song that they have, you know, contributed in. Like,anyone would have fun with macam, “Hey, look, that's the thing that I contributed in.” I want them to feel like this is their baby. But at the same time, we are godparents to all of these babies. But also, one of the main reasons why I want them to write is so that they also get songwriting credits, hence getting royalty along with it. So that's why I want to incorporate them. I can't pay you a huge sum of money. Like our shows pun macam kalau kita dah bahagi, semua orang dah masuk duit tabung, like band fund bersemua tu macam (When we split the band’s earnings, and chip into the band fund) we don't get enough to get by for us to let go of our main job. But at least you get some writing credit, at least you get royalties, at least you get something from it. And that's actually my main goal as to why I want them to write, and how it translates in the music, in like, performances ,they have more character on stage. And that's what I want people to see because waktu  practice (practice time), macam dia orang main-main (their playfulness), and that's the fun part that I see in them. And I want them to bring the fun on stage as well.

EZRA

It's a very small detail, but like that steak that you spoke about-about them, you know, being part of [the] songwriting process, but them also getting a songwriting credit. It's like, you know, you can argue that it's transactional, but that stuff is real, because it manifests itself on-stage because their ownership is evident, right? And you always have these notions of “Oh, this is how other people do it. And am I supposed to be doing it this way?” Did you have to sort of think about that relationship in that sense, because The  Venopian Solitude was just Taka, right? And then it evolves into something else, or did it just come quite organically,

TAKA

It came organically because one, it could be my organic means.  Macam, I don't want to do what everyone else is doing. So like most people, when they are solo artists, and they have a session band with them, they rarely incorporate the band into the administrative stuff. Get what I mean? Let's say I want to say contohnya (for example), royalty or making the album, sometimes you use the session, sometimes you don’t. But my point is, when you have that divide between you, the artist, and the session band dia macam, mana (it’s like, where is) [the] chemistry. Do you know I mean? Instead of calling ourselves “we are a band” ínstead of using ‘’I the artist and you the sessionist”. I just wanted to close that gap. And if I feel like -if I want to be a douche and a bitch, I would have just like, The Venopian Solitude is just me. And the band is the band, they get sessionist rate I get more money. Macam, I feel wrong, [to] getting the money because if it wasn't for the band, The Venopian Solitude wouldn't sound that great, wouldn't have this body, this universe that we carry around every time we perform. And it's doing them a great injustice for me to get more money than them. So that's why I try to make sure that I am clear with them about the finances [and of] my decisions. I ask them “Guys ist okay if I do this, is it okay if I do that? What do you guys think of the end?” I usually get their opinions first before I impose my opinions. Unless I really feel like, “Guys, I really want this. Can I have this, please?” That's how I impose my opinion because I don't want them to complain about other people because TVS-I think I should say this-TVS is a collective of people who were-almost everyone was sort of like, in a way kicked out of their previous bands. So whenever kita orang buka cerita pasal (we tell stories), like, after rehearsals, kita borak ke mamak, semua kita buka cerita (when we chat at the road-side, we swap stories about) the things that has happened to them, that has happened to our friends. I feel like, “Wait, why is this still happening? How is there not a band or a band leader who is responsible in not making this happen?” You get kicked out of a band, because dia macam takde (they like, don’t have) communication, I was like, wait apa ni (what’s this)? It's like you're breaking up with your partner because you don't communicate. I hate that logic. So [that’s what] I try not to do with this band. I try to have as much communication with them. And we even have like, ah, like post mortem meeting but also at the same time-

EZRA

Right, some reflections of-

TAKA

Macam “What do you guys think of the band? What do you guys think of me personally? This is a place to let it out.” And then we had that earlier this year, and it was a huge relief for me to be able to do that with the bandmates. And they're more open now, especially during that meeting lah.

EZRA

It seems like you're quite successful at processing the rage into something quite productive. How much of a challenge is that or have you just figured a way to get better at that?

TAKA

I figured out a way to get better that because I realized I started doing that when I was in, I think form one or form two.

EZRA

Have you picked up an instrument already by then?

TAKA

No, because I was not allowed any. Because my parents said study-study-study, don't-don't do all these music thing, it's useless. Because, you know, we were told, if you go into entertainment, you're dumb you don't have, you know, qualifications macam nak bercuti-cuti (like you want to be lazy) no need to- yeah, you’re going straight to hell. So you have to study to be an engineer-doctor, whatever. So when I was in form one, my friends and I, we did this thing called like, godam lagu (song mash-up), which is hacking pop songs and changing the lyrics. Around the same time at school, we were learning about metaphora (metaphor), hyperbola (hyperbole), simile, you know, those linguistic device shit. And I start using it in my blog, which I still use them (the linguistic device shit). But it's in like multiple layer form. Every like, one or two posts where I've like, I was mad at my mother, because my mother scolded me for something so I wrote this blog about her. But because it was like syair or sajak (poem or rhyme) or whatever. Even if people found out about it, people don't know what I'm talking about. So that helped in molding my writing style. 

EZRA  

One of the things that, you know, in speaking to other people in prepping for this conversation, like the word that came coming back-justcentering around, either you or the artists and the music or whatever -it was like, somewhere between the words of brave and courage — and I don't know if that resonates with you, but that word kept popping up. And I was wondering what that means to you. 

TAKA

To be brave and courageous? No, it's not brave and courageous. It's laziness. It's plain being lazy because the cords that I  use is simple. And if you don't know the rules, it looks simple. Because if you know the rules, dia macam, wait, kenapa dia ambil cord ni, kenapa dia tak ambil cord tu (why did she take this cord, and not that cord)? You think too much about which road to take in order to arrive to where I arrived. I just took the shortcut by not knowing all these other, you know, roads. Macam, “Hey, I see a shortcut there. I'm gonna walk through that bush macam there is tiny shortcut, I'm gonna lalu that jalan (go through that road).” Being lazy isuseful in life. Because if you notice, like, being lazy breeds creativity. Because you don't want to take the extra step, no matter what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna take a shortcut,. I'm going to find you know-bust my brain until I find the shortest shortcut I can find.

EZRA 

You and I use the word lazy. This laziness is not mutually exclusive to say like, productive or prolific, right? The lazy you’re talking about is like this lean-back type of allow-it-to-happen kind of lazy, or are you consciously leaning in and looking for that shortcut, so that you can get that thing out?

TAKA

I'm leaning towards the shortcut. Because while at the same time, because-if I spend more time learning about the shortcut, and in the future, I can continue [to] use that shortcut, the time that I spend not going to the jalan dalam (inside road). It can be spent on learning about new things and other things and other ways to find a shortcut. You know I mean? So, it sounds like I'm a good time manager, but I'm not. I'm horrible at managing time. It's just I know that-

EZRA

It sounds like you're an engineer or a coder. Like you're looking for shortcuts and you're trying to store it, and so that you have like a collection of presets to ensure that you're the best lazy person that is able to achieve the things that you've already learned.

TAKA 

Yeah, yeah, that. But at the same time, after I've learned the shortcut, I do get tired of the shortcut. So macam, there’s  probably a shorter way than the shortcut that is just found. So I’ll keep on finding a shorter way. But at the same time, I might end up macam, to me, it looks like a shortcut, but to other people wei, itu betul lagi panjang je (Hey, that’s even longer).. Like, there is actually a plug-in for this, instead of whatever you're doing. But I didn't know about the plug-in, nor do I care. Because this is a shortcut that I learn. And I'm just going to stick to it because, you know, memory-muscle memory and reflexes. One day I might, you know, be interested in learning your shortcut, but not right now. I'll probably go to that later.

(music)

That was Takahara Suiko for this edition of Project Notes. 

Once again, if you haven’t already, check out the episode titled Processing The Rage is Tiring. 

For more details, head over to ezrazaid.com. To enhance your listening experience, subscribe to us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, by searching the Ezra Zaid Project. 

Hit us back on social media or just say hi: for Facebook, Twitter and Instagram — that’s at @projectezrazaid.