Hidayah Hisham — When Grief and Incarceration Meet in Film

Note: The Ezra Zaid Project is proudly produced by a crack team of audiophiles and the best way to enjoy it is to listen to it. This allows for greater nuance and emphasis that sometimes may not translate as well to the written transcripts that are available to download for each episode. It would be best to cross check the corresponding audio, before quoting us in print.

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Just before we start, there is some profanity in this program. But beyond that, here we go.

EZRA

I'm more excited about this conversation than you are. 

HIDAYAH

Yeah, yeah.

EZRA

Yeah, it's it's probably the case because... yeah, you've probably spoken about this at length. Have you spoken about this at length? 

HIDAYAH

Yeah. Yes. I mean, like, yes, two, three months ago, there was like a storm of like interviews and had to do like, so much public speaking. 

EZRA

I mean, did you feel like Cate Blanchett on a press junket? Is that what you-

HIDAYAH

No, no... I felt like - I felt like every new millennial actress who is you know, who just-

EZRA

Oh, yes. Yes. 

HIDAYAH

- first time baru (newly) socialize people and then like, suddenly put in front of like a camera and [it’s] like, ‘Hi, say a few words about your film.’ And I'm…

EZRA

 Oh, right, right. It is very curt, right? Like, “Just tell us what you did!” And, you know, “I heard you spent a lot of your time and your emotions and energy into this thing. Just give us a five second bite!” kind of thing. 

HIDAYAH

“Keep it short,” yeah, yeah, there's- 

(laughs) 

EZRA

Yeah, there’s very decent discount your feelings. 

HIDAYAH

Yeah! Right.

(laughs)

EZRA

Well, speaking of summarizing, feelings -segue-

(Ezra and Hidayah laugh)

[music]

You're listening to the Ezra Zaid Project. On the program, Hidayah Hisham.

Hidayah and I, we used to work together. She started out as an intern, and we then became colleagues. And just to clarify, Hidayah isn’t a millennial actress. In fact, she started out producing videos to tell interesting stories, and now she's a director. Hidayah  is part of a trio of filmmakers that are behind the new documentary film, Ayahku, Dr. G.

in 2017, Amiruddin Abdullah, known as Dr. Ganja or Dr. G, was arrested on 36 drug-related charges. The retired army captain allegedly distributed medical cannabis to patients suffering from chronic illnesses. And here in Malaysia, he faces the death penalty if found guilty of trafficking. The film follows his daughter city and her quest for her father's freedom.

TELEPHONE EXCERPT, FROM ‘AYAHKU, DR G’

SITI

Hello?

DR G

Hello, Assalamu Alaikum. 

SITI

Daddy sihat (well)?

DR G

I’m trying my best...trying my best to survive. It’s something like what… you know, kalau burung dikurung dalam sangkar.. [intelligible]...burung itu tengah mengharapkan tuhannya akan lepaskannya. (If a bird sits in a cage, it’s just hoping its master will release it.) I’m only talking to the cage. Cakap dengan Allah, cakap dengan dinding. (Talking to God, talking to the wall.)

SITI

Sepatutnya daddy dah boleh keluar. Tapi tak tahulah… (I thought daddy would be released by now. But I don’t know…) 

DR G

Tak ada, tak ada, I’m okay, I’m okay. Don’t worry, tiada masalah ia. (there’s no problem.) You are my daughter, you must be strong for me. Don’t worry, I’ll be strong. Don’t follow me, jangan rendak ikut saya- 

SITI 

Orang ni kuat sebab daddy, lah. (I’m strong because of you.)

DR G

You have to be… more stronger, okay? 

SITI

(pause)

Okay, okay.

TELEPHONE EXCERPT FROM ‘AYAHKU, DR G’ ENDS

HIDAYAH

So, ‘Ayahku Dr G’ is a film about a daughter...who is trying to cope with the grief of possibly losing her dad to death by hanging, because he allegedly consumed medical cannabis to treat his own chronic sicknesses. And in that journey of like his daughter dealing with the grief. It's really a story about a daughter who's trying to cope with the grief.  But she's neither denying it or accepting it and it's-  it's really a film about grief.

TELEPHONE EXCERPT, FROM ‘AYAHKU, DR G’

DR G

I must win the case, I must win the case. Inshallah, I must win. And it’s all now in the hands of Ramparkal. 

SITI

Kita berdoa dan kena positif je. Sekarang memang kena tabah. (So we pray, we have to be positive. We need to be strong now.)

DR G

Yeah...yeah. But I want to go out so I can take care of you and all my cucu (grandchildren), and my children… [voice breaks] I’m too old already. I’m 60 years, doing what in the prison I also don’t know.

SITI

Daddy...

DR G

Okay, anything I’ll - I’ll pray for you. You are my best daughter. Okay? We must be strong. Alright?

SITI

Okay, daddy.

DR G

Okay? I love you, okay? You take care.

SITI

Okay, inshallah.

TELEPHONE EXCERPT, FROM ‘AYAHKU, DR G’ ENDS 

This short film gives a nod to so much happening around the conversation on cannabis. Its medicinal potential, the worldwide movement towards decriminalization, and not to mention, legalization. But for Hidayah, it went beyond the issues and the headlines. There was something about Siti, and her relationship with her father, that resonated with her. Just something else that struck closer to home.

HIDAYAH

Jo Yee, my producer, she found the story, like way, way back - I think like in 2017, when Dr. G was first arrested. So Jo Yee’s been following that story for like the past two years up to 2019. The first time I met Dr. G was early 2020. It was actually right before MCO. Initially, the plan was to just like, talk to Dr. G and tell him that, “We would love to make a film about you. And, you know, we want to help you, we want to get your voice out, we want to tell your story.’  But when I got there, like Dr. g wasn’t anywhere because he was still like, being held back by security. But I ran into Siti - the main character, the daughter of Dr. G - and we started talking and everything and at first I thought, “It's great to have a family member. Maybe we can interview her and everything,” but like, because we found out that like Siti was like the main caretaker for Dr. G, and [we found out]  the struggles that she was dealing with as a caretaker and, you know, as a daughter seeing her dad get incarcerated. That was a much more unique...I don't know. Like for me [personally], though, I think it was...familiar. Because I've seen it before. And it was like seeing my mom, when I was a kid. And she went through the same struggles Siti is going through right now. Like, you know, dealing with her dad in prison and everything… My mom was doing that for my dad. About like - what, I’m 25 years old now, so around...17 years ago? Yeah, so when I was 9. 

EZRA

You were a kid at the time.

HIDAYAH

Yeah, I was a kid. I was 9. So...yeah. I just realized. So I was like, “Siti, what's up? Like, why are you doing this for dad?” And that was like such a silly question. Because like I...seeing the amount of struggle she went through, it's not easy. You know, she lives in Kuala Kilah. Court hearings are in Shah Alam. And the prison is in Sungai Buloh. So that's like, two, three hours of drive. And she would literally just, like wake up at like 3:00, 4:00 am, and get on the road, just so that she can make it to the court hearings on time. And not even to get there on time. She needs to be there before her dad gets there, so she can prep all this stuff, like, you know, clothes for the court hearings and like, prepare all the documents for the lawyers and get the food ready. So like, that's a huge Herculean effort. And I think, seeing that was just like mind-blowing, like, because she has a full time job on top of that, right? So, yeah. So I leaned more into that. And that feeling was just like, natural. Like, I think it was the same thing I witnessed my mom going through. So I think, maybe if I went to Siti, I would understand more about what my mom went through. Yeah.

EZRA

You said you and, you know, the main character of your film, Siti... You guys share this bond over similar experiences. So what did happen to your father?

HIDAYAH

So, the story of my dad was that he was he was arrested twice, both for drug possession. Cocaine, above 200 grams. And it was all like, in Malaysian laws, if you have 200 grams and above you're considered with the intent to sell.

EZRA

Or trafficking?

HIDAYAH

Or trafficking...No, my dad intended to use the whole thing. So- 

(laughs) 

- yeah, it's personal consumption and everything. And yeah, so he was gone for two years. Mom came home one day and said, “Dad’s gone on a business trip to India.” And I'm like, “Okay, so...when is he coming back? And she's like… “We'll see.” 

And for two years, I didn't have a dad. But I remember it was like, my mom would go back and forth on like, almost every day, and she would just get my brother to babysit me. And she would go off to like, she would drive all the way to Sungai Buloh by herself or to… I don’t exactly remember what court it was. But yes, [she would drive] to Sungai Buloh almost every day [that] she could. Saturday, Sunday, were visiting days. 

EZRA

So the idea of your dad going to India for work was basically sort of this… the story that she could tell, as the real situation was that he was in Sungai Buloh. 

HIDAYAH 

And… yeah, he was in Sungai Buloh. I think [for] two years. I vaguely like I vaguely remember my mom being really depressed that time. And it was- I don't even particularly remember being raised by anyone, at that time. I think I was raised by my brother. Because she was sorting out all of these things. And, you know, like a child's logic aside, right? Because, like, [my] dad's in India, and so she needs to, like, do all the ‘dad work’, I guess. But yeah, it was only like, when I was 12 that my dad just came clean to me and said, like, “So for the past two years that I was missing, you know, that I was in India, well- I was actually in Sungai Buloh. I did this and this…”, you know, he came clean to me about his addiction and everything. And I think it was more for him than it was for us. Like, in a sense, like, I need you to know. Like, you know, those were one of those times when you're telling a story… when you're telling someone something, and it's actually more for you than it is for them. He-

EZRA

It must have been hard. 

HIDAYAH 

It was hard. Yeah. Especially because he- 

(Hidayah pauses)

- he passed away in 2015. And I never really got the full story. Like, he would joke about prison, every now and then, throughout [my life]. That was his way of expressing, like- 

EZRA

Yeah. For sure. As a coating in some way, I guess.

HIDAYAH 

Yeah. And as a kid, you're like, “What the fuck,” you know? And it's not linear, right? The story of what your family members went through, it's always there. They're always gonna, like, drop in, give you a joke about it, and then drop out. I mean, I don't know about other people. But- 

EZRA

And to your memory, do you think he did try to share or express or...share that with you in any meaningful way?

HIDAYAH 

He tried to but like, I couldn't understand it. You know? And again, it's like, how do you comprehend that? It's also like information overload, right? Like, growing up, at 12, you kind of are exposed to different things. And I think when my dad was trying to communicate to me about it, I was almost rejecting it, in the sense that...you know, Mom tried so hard to hide it. So that's like - not that it's a bad thing, but it's like, something that [we were] very ashamed of. From a very young age, I was shaped to think of a certain community being very, very bad people. And to associate that with my dad was like, you know…

EZRA

 Must’ve been so confusing and paralyzing, right? 

HIDAYAH 

It was. It was. And you don't know what to do with it, because nobody talks about it. So yeah, I blocked it all out. And I think…I always thought like, “Maybe I can sort this later. I can think about it later. Right now, it's like, get to the end of the line.” You know? 

EZRA

And you know, as you've been, I guess...processing this for most of your life now - Was there any part in making the film and in, I guess, sharing it with Siti that it might have made things a little bit lighter for yourself?

HIDAYAH 

Yeah, yeah, I think if anything, it made me like - it forced me to acknowledge this thing that happened, like 15 years ago. It just like... it made me take a really hard look at the things I was trying to push aside. And like, that's important for growth, you know - it's addressing all of that and having to be with Siti, almost...like, I would visit her almost every weekend. Not entirely just for filming, but just to like, check on her, like, you know, “Let's go hiking, let's have lunch. I want to know what's going on.” And it just made me lighter in the sense that, like, I know that there was someone else like me. 

[music]

Actually, like if I could share this, the first time I told someone that my dad was in prison, they were like, “Oh, like, do you still live with him? Like, you know, do you? Are you like…is he still your dad?” Like, yeah, like we live together. And then  that kind of shied me away from it. Because, I don't know… And this goes back to like, a lot of what Siti was trying to say as well. Like she gets so mad when her dad isn’t here to defend himself. Because like she - yeah, I mean, she can defend him to a degree and everything. But like, it's just... it just keeps coming. You know, it's this silent aggression. It's this thing that people hold.

EZRA

And how do you feel about that?

HIDAYAH 

Yes, yeah, like you said, it's paralyzing. It's like, “ I don't know how to talk to you if you already have like, these solid ideas about [me]. And it's not because it's their personal [opinion], it's just how they’ve been educated. Right? Yeah, like, just-

(Hidayah sniffs)

-I think it could be another layer to this too, was that my dad was an addict. He was like struggling with himself, in a lot of ways. But he  like, a really great person. He was really great dad. You know, like, he- he was a functional member of society. You know, he went golfing, he had time to, like, teach me about music and everything. So- 

(Hidayah’s voice breaks)

-yeah, so that's...yeah.

So I guess it’s that like... I know that my dad went through a lot. 

[music]

Whatever compass you have inside of you just kind of guides you to the story that you're going to be telling anyway. So I think that was what happened. That maybe I was already walking towards this courthouse from day one. 

(Hidayah pauses)

I felt like I was always running really, really fast. And not as much as like run from the past. I think it was just like, let's just get to tomorrow, or probably like, it's much better. Yeah, like, I think the process of making a film is also like…

(Hidayah sniffs)

...yeah, it's quite special, right? Like you spend...because you're creating this living thing. It's not it's not just like a video or whatever. I mean, someone's life is encapsulated in that. And it keeps growing, and growing, and growing, and you have to respect it because it demanded respect, it demanded attention, it demanded thoughtfulness. 

And, yes, sorry, constructive. Yeah, we...if I had just been sitting there on that grief and not directing it to something, I would have gotten nowhere. And I think the film... you know, Jo Yee, Dom, Siti, Dr. G...all of that was like a parachute, you know, to pull me out and, and I think... yeah, that's the most beautiful thing about making a film. Like I sounds so cheesy, but I genuinely think that... yeah, no, I don't really know how to describe it. It's just like this- It was this ship that you know, kind of like, saved me from my own grief, in a lot of ways. Yeah. And you know, I stayed away from Dr. G as much in the film as I could, like I had to address it, but really to me the focus was Siti all in all, and I think that's what frustrates me as well. Like when people ask me like, “Where's Dr. G? You know like it's mostly about Siti.” And that's what it is! It's really a story about like - yes, this man was prosecuted for medical cannabis. We're trying to save his life. We're trying to save other people's lives. But it's just the story of Siti. The story of the children whose parents are in the headlines, always get sidelined. 

With Siti, there was always like, a language barrier. In the sense that her language for grief and my language for grief were different. Her language for grief is like, “You know what? Shit happens, I gotta keep moving, I gotta , you know, keep pushing forward.” But at the same time she kind of takes it in, like, “Oh, okay, [gotta] carry [this], [gotta] walk.” You know, she knows how to take it and then throw it back. But like it was eventually it was just like, I was like poking at her, like “How do you do it? How do you get out of this? Like, how the fuck do you like… how do you live and be close to death at the same time?” And she just keeps walking. And for me it’s just like, “I need a moment. I need a moment.” You know? Yeah, so like...Dr G? For him, it’s about survival. He really...you know, he didn't come from a background of like- he didn't come from a place of privilege, right? He tried everything. And on top of everything, like, you know, modern medicine failed him. And he still thrived, he still looked for ways. Because to him, it was like, “This is my health. This is my right. Like, why can I medicate myself the way I want to?” You know, it’s...I think it’s that sheer grit of like, going against everything, despite knowing the avalanche of shit - sorry, the uphill battle - you face. It's just a testament to like, how strong, or how well do we know ourselves that we want to, like, keep fighting for things? You know? Yeah.

There's research and studies saying that kids with incarcerated parents, they, they get stuck in this like, cycle of poverty, of like, mental health, and end up being in crime as well. And if that is the case, you need to know you're not alone. And that your dad is still your dad, your mom's still your mom, and your auntie or whoever you're close to in experiencing this is that, you're not alone. And yeah, I just I just say that you're not alone. And if it's any consolation, it might take a while for you to find someone else who's willing to talk about it too. But know that that's worth staying around for. Yeah.

EZRA

Well, Dayah, I've told you before, but I'll tell you again - I'm super proud of what you've done with this film. It's really surreal to watch it, because this film has a lot of amazing moments and amazing qualities about where you are as a storyteller. And especially hearing the story behind you as well, and everything that you've gone through, and to be able to transmit that into something that people are watching, is pretty cool. And you know, you've got a lot to be proud of. Well done. I'm really, really happy for you. 

HIDAYAH 

Thank you Ezra. Really. And yeah, man, like I wouldn't have done it if, you know, you- You made it like a less lonely place in that journey as well. And yeah, thank you. Like, really. Thank you.

[music]

OUTRO

The film, Ayahku, Dr. G, premiered at the Freedom Film Fest from the 10th to the 12th of December 2020. Now, more public screenings are being planned. But, with the support of the filmmakers, and the organizers, for a limited period of time, they've provided access for listeners of The Ezra Zaid Project to watch the documentary online.

So to gain access to watch the film, all you need to do is sign up for the newsletter at ezrazaid.com or check the show notes for more details.

My sincere thanks to the filmmakers, Hidayah Hisham, Loh Jo Yee, and Dominique Teoh, as well as the good folks at the Freedom Film network. To find out how you can lend support to Siti and Dr. G,  or how you can get involved in the campaign that aims to destigmatize medical cannabis, head over to kajibukankeji.com. That's K-A-J-I B-U-K-A-N K-E-J-I.com. 

[music]

CREDITS

The Ezra Zaid Project is made by me, Ezra Zaid. I host, produce, and edit the show. This episode is co-produced by Ting Yen Min and Rahmah Pauzi.

The team that contributed to this episode includes Isa, Sabrina Yusof, Melati Kamaruddin, and Chun Saw. 

Additional Music is by Blue Dot Sessions. 

Our theme music is by Breakmaster Cylinder featuring Rakin Suflan.
Follow us on social media: our handle is @projectezrazaid and you can find us on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. Listen to previous episodes on ezrazaid.com or subscribe to us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or however you listen to podcasts.

And until next time, stay safe and we’ll see you soon.